This episode is surprisingly full of laughter, hope, and fun anecdotes, while also giving you insights into what it has been like to work in public health during a global pandemic. Last time we spoke to Sydney she was teaching teens about healthy relationships. With a job in public health, Sydney shifted over to the COVID testing site when it opened in Coconino County in March. When I interviewed her in July, she was still working there almost full time.
For a full transcript of the episode, read below.
00:01 Sharon Tewksbury-bloom: I feel like we’re far enough in this now that I’m trying to remember all those lessons I learned at the beginning. [chuckle]
00:06 Sydney Tulchinsky: Yes, yes. Like, “That’s like early COVID. Interesting.”
00:10 ST: Right, right yeah. [laughter][music]
00:20 Speaker 3: This is Do Good, Be Good, the show about helpful people and the challenges they face in trying to do good. Your host is Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom, a career do-gooder who also loves craft beer and a good hard tackle in rugby. Sharon speaks to everyday people about why they do good and what it means to be good.
00:41 ST: Hello. I’m your host, Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom. The other voice you heard at the top of the episode is our guest for today, Sydney Tulchinsky. Sydney has been a guest on the show before in episode 38. That time, we talked about her work in teen pregnancy prevention. Well, since the pandemic started, her work has changed a lot. Her job is in the Public Health Department, so that means that, as she’ll explain during our conversation, she got pulled into COVID response work very early on. And just a few things that I want you to know before we get started that’ll help clarify. First, I interviewed Sydney on July 19th outside in our backyard at more than 10 feet apart. Everything we discuss in this episode is still relevant, but I just wanted to put that into context. Also, we mentioned our spouses at one point. Mine is Jay and hers is Steven, so that is who we were talking about if it’s not already clear. And finally, when she refers to Fort Tuthill, that is the name of the COVID testing site here in Coconino County, where we live. Thank you for listening to Do Good, Be Good, and here is my conversation with Sydney Tulchinsky. So how are you?
01:57 ST: Fine. [chuckle] I really am fine. I think I’m just experiencing regular fatigue of the situation, like everyone is. Nothing too terrible, knock on wood, has happened.
02:08 ST: Well, and on a happy note, it’s been so long since we’ve talked that you got married since we talked last, or since we talked face-to-face.
02:17 ST: Legally I got married, yeah.
02:19 ST: Yeah, you made it official with a courthouse.
02:20 ST: Which is funny, we got married on March 13th and on March 16th, the world shut down. Which March 13th was a Friday the 13th, so we always joked that like, “We did this. [chuckle] This is our fault.”
02:30 ST: Was there thought in the timing of that?
02:33 ST: Yeah. We’ve been together 11… It was our 11th anniversary that day. We were friends who were roommates who lived together who were in love who started dating. Our first date was a Friday the 13th in March.
02:49 ST: Nice.
02:50 ST: And we always joked, “Next time the March 13th is a Friday, we’ll get married,” but that happened six years in and we were like, “Oh, oops, we forgot about that silly plan, so we’ll just do rings.” So we exchanged rings and did engagement at that time, and then five years again later is when it happened this time. So we planned to get married on that day legally, regardless of when the wedding… We were doing our wedding… We were supposed to do our wedding the first weekend in May, which did not happen because of this. But we did our courthouse wedding March 13th and had a tiny little party with local friends, and my mother is the only family member who was there because really the big wedding was supposed to be later. So that’s a bummer, but at least we got a little party. I look at everyone’s struggles… That’s why I feel like I have to say, my COVID experience hasn’t been as bad as a lot of people’s. It’s stressful and scary and sad, but I am still working and so is Steven and we’re just pretty lucky.
03:51 ST: I feel like you and Steven are sort of Jay and I, but reverse. He hasn’t stopped working. He’s worked full-time and he’s gone to work every day in terms of…
04:04 ST: And where is he again?
04:06 ST: He is working as an electrician. So especially for the first several weeks, in a way he didn’t get it ’cause everything…
04:13 ST: His life didn’t change that much?
04:16 ST: Yeah, his life didn’t change and everything was the same. And your work is… You’re obviously in it, so you’re not not getting it. You totally know what’s going on.
04:25 ST: It changed and didn’t change. Everything changed, but also I’m still working for the same place.
04:30 ST: Yeah, and still working full-time and all that and still leaving the house. And then yeah, me and… Well, I don’t know if Steven’s still meeting with clients a lot, but I know I’m doing most stuff from home now.
04:42 ST: He is a bit.
04:44 ST: Well, everything from home now. Okay, so you got married March 13th, going back in time, an auspicious date that means a lot to a lot of people now. That’s the day my sister and brother-in-law stopped working, so they have not worked since then ’cause they work on Broadway.
05:02 ST: Oh yeah.
05:04 ST: Yeah, that’s the day Broadway closed. You did not take a honeymoon. [chuckle]
05:08 ST: No, no. Our wedding was supposed to be in Rocky Point, Mexico, and it was supposed to encompass… We were gonna stay for a long time after.
05:20 ST: So you went back to work on Monday?
05:22 ST: Yup. [laughter]
05:25 ST: And when did work start to change for you?
05:28 ST: That Monday. That was the day spring break started for the schools around here, and everyone kind of had this conversation like, “What’s gonna happen after spring break?” And what Coconino County Health started doing was that’s when they opened the testing site at Fort Tuthill, was March 16th. Because my job is school-based, I was a natural candidate to go volunteer work, work at the site. At least in my mind, at least for the week of spring break, until we know what’s happening, right?
06:02 ST: All the schools were closed.
06:04 ST: I was like, “Yeah, I have a whole week where I can do a different job.” And then little did we know, 16 weeks later or something, I would still be working at Fort Tuthill and the schools would still be closed. Well, now it’s summer. But we never went back to school. And the testing site became really essentially everyone’s job, everyone in the Health and Human Services… I shouldn’t say that, this is an unofficial thing, but almost everyone who works at Health and Human Services and other parts of the county is in some way related to working somehow for the response to COVID. Either for testing or surveillance, or contact tracing or investigations, or helping deliver meals to populations who need shelter during this time. So there’s a lot of jobs going on that are brand new jobs that we never had before. [chuckle]
06:55 ST: Right. That has been your job site now ever since?
06:57 ST: Yeah, so the first… Until the beginning of May, so the first three months I was full-time at Fort Tuthill, doing data entry in real time for patients who come in. It’s a podcast, what am I typing in the air doing data entry. [chuckle] So patients would come in and get tested and I would in real time put them in the system, and in the beginning of May, I broke my toe, just walking around the house and broke it broke it, not like a fracture, I had to go to the ER at night and have it reset. [chuckle] That was an adventure. I was on the floor in my bedroom with a broken toe being like, “I don’t wanna go to the ER. What else can I do?” We’re looking at my toe, which is at like a 90 degree angle to the other toe so I’m like, “We have to go.”
07:46 ST: You’re like, looking at your toe with one eye and looking at YouTube for the other of like, how do you set a broken toe at home. [chuckle]
07:52 ST: Right? I really thought about it. I was like, “It can’t be that hard.” But I couldn’t touch it. It was too painful. So after that, I switched to a different team where I call people with their results or I… I’m on the surveillance team, so now I look at results and help classify them in the system or I call people who have negative results depending on what’s needed that day, I do different things. And I alternate now so I’m only two days a week at Fort Tuthill, and three days a week at home, doing something to do with the COVID cases and also trying to also work on my real job, which is teen pregnancy prevention to an extent, but that’s very little right now, so… That’s my work right now.
08:35 ST: Well, that’s fascinating. You mentioned just not feeling like this was going to be your job permanently, but…
08:42 ST: Yeah.
08:42 ST: Anything in terms of what it felt like to start that type of work and what it felt like at the beginning?
08:49 ST: Yeah, at the beginning, it was very chaotic for all of the scenarios and planning that emergency management does. They never ran a scenario where we were in charge of a testing site. So they had a lot of stuff in place, but not this one thing. And so I was there the day we set up Fort Tuthill, the day we figured out the system, the day we partnered with FMC, and the nurses came, and some of those nurses were involved in the Ebola response many years ago. So they taught us how to Don and Doff PPE with scary seriousness, and we’re all like, “Pandemics are scary, this is crazy. What’s happening?” And they’re like, “Take it seriously. This is how you Don and Doff PPE,” and we’re like, “Okay.” And then things really settled, it got to this really reliable team of like 5-10 of us, half county people, half FMC people, and it honestly became for a while, it was like this cohort of us who… This was our place full-time to be at Fort Tuthill.
10:00 ST: We all got to know each other really well. They threw me a wedding on the day I was supposed to have my wedding, they decorated Fort Tuthill like a Mexican party. [chuckle] Shout out to Rob who works for Parks and Rec, because he’s our Fort Tuthill guy. His wife made me a wedding cake, and they made salsa from scratch. They made decorations from scratch, I mean these people were so sweet and amazing. One of the nurses who works at FMC, bought everyone handmade mugs from Arnie, so that we would have something as this team, ’cause another nurse brought his espresso machine. So we all had this like… I don’t know, it became this sweet place of just people who were… I don’t know how to explain it. It was just one of the most amazing places I’ve ever worked.
10:53 ST: Well, I imagine it’s like you’re clearly working on something extremely difficult, and all you have is each other in this crazy world, and just having that… Yeah, that bonding that comes from doing something so difficult with people who are trying their best and who are looking out for each other. That’s huge.
11:13 ST: Yeah, I wish I had a clear idea of how long that cohort lasted. It was like a few months, all of April and May, a little bit into June, I think. And then things started to need to open up again. So FMC needed their nurses back, and even county needed, people still need rental assistance, they still need their meals delivered, there’s things that need to happen at county level. So FMC needed some of their nurses back, so they stopped being able to come, and then county started hiring some temp people and people to fill in the gap, so it’s even different now, and for a while, we had a lot of National Guard volunteers coming. So it’s just one of these jobs that I’ve never had before where it just has to change and flow and ebb and constantly change and you just need to be okay with that. And I think people are actually pretty good at being adaptable when they have to be.
12:06 ST: Well, it’s fascinating because your work was really centered around prevention work.
12:11 ST: Mm-hmm. Now it’s very much reaction work.
12:16 ST: Now you’re on the emergency response…
12:19 ST: Yes.
12:20 ST: Which is a whole specialty in and of itself, has this given you an insight that that’s a career path you would ever consider going into?
12:30 ST: I don’t think so. [chuckle]
12:33 ST: I mean, personally, my little amount of exposure to working on emergency preparedness, even on the preparedness side, I was like, “I don’t want to do this work.”
12:42 ST: Yeah. I’m not great with stress. [chuckle]
12:46 ST: I prefer things where like, I do a strategic planning. I like things where I’m way ahead of it.
12:50 ST: Yes.
12:51 ST: And I’m trying to plan ahead, and I do not do as well with the day-to-day…
12:55 ST: Although, having said that, I don’t want to do this work, I enjoy it right now. When I broke my toe and I thought I wasn’t gonna be at the site anymore at all, I really did not like that. It turns out I wanna be where… I wanna have my fingers on the pulse of what’s going on, it actually made me feel better to be involved, and not just because I needed hours or something, I want it… When I was faced with being 100% at home, I was like, “I actually don’t wanna be 100% at home.” I wanna be where the people are doing good work and I was doing good work at home, the teams who are working at home are doing really good work. That’s not the issue, but I… Yeah, it’s really hard work at Fort Tuthill. There are some days where there’s 40 people, and then there are some days where there’s 400 people, patients.
13:42 ST: Right, getting tested.
13:42 ST: So it’s like, supporting each other out there is, I think, one of the most valuable jobs I’ve done ever in my life. I know what they’re all doing.
13:53 ST: I would imagine that there’s an element of it of, I mean, you talked about having your finger on the pulse, but it’s also like there’s so much negativity in the national news and everything, and I feel like if you can see that on a micro level, people are really trying to do something to get a hold of this, to take care of each other, to make it better, that must be comforting in a way, even as scary as it is.
14:20 ST: In the beginning, my mother and my grandmother both took time to tell me they did not like this. They don’t want me to be out there. And I was like, “Okay, noted.” [chuckle] I was like, “You don’t understand. I signed up, when you work for public health, you kind of sign… You agree that if there’s ever an emergency in public health, you know you’re gonna be called upon.” And most of us were like, “Okay, whatever.” But I mean, it was totally natural and made complete sense. That when I came back from my “tiny wedding,” I went straight to Fort Tuthill. It was not really… I didn’t wonder, I was like, “I’m pretty sure when I get back to work, this is the work I’m gonna be doing.” And I never thought, “Oh I don’t wanna do it.” It was more like… It is scary, but it was scary in a way that made sense or was the natural… I wasn’t thinking in my head like, “How I’m I gonna go back to work and not have to do this.” I was thinking like, “This is what my job’s gonna be.” And I don’t know, it just… You see the nurses who are in the ICU and I’m like, “Would you tell them not to go to work?” And I’m sure their families are worried about them, and I am nowhere close to the risk of those heroes, I know saying heroes is a little trite, but honestly, the people doing the most important work is not me. I can do a little bit of work and help the cause, and it’s not as scary as the people doing the most important things.
15:48 ST: How has it been in terms of the protection of the people who are working at the testing sites?
15:55 ST: We are good. We have good PPE. We have enough PPE.
15:58 ST: Nice.
16:00 ST: We have a meeting every morning where we remind each other to go to the bathroom before you get in your stuff because we don’t wanna waste it. That kind of thing. But if you need to use two in one day, it’s okay. And we have a really good system in place where everybody’s really separated from the patients. I’m inside the whole time, I’m at a computer and I wear a mask and gloves because I handle the paperwork, but the patient never touches the paperwork, it’s done by someone else standing outside the car and they’re wearing masks, and the patient’s wearing a mask and I don’t know, at least at the site, I think I have never been afraid of contracting COVID-19 at work. I’m worried about it at the grocery store, I’m worried about it at Home Depot. I’m worried about it at the very few places I allow myself to go because I have to to survive, but I’m not worried about it at work.
16:51 ST: That was gonna be my next question. [chuckle] Knowing everything, you know what worries you in your day-to-day life with…
16:58 ST: I mean, I guess I do worry if I’m worried about getting it at work, I’m worried about getting it from someone I work with who also had to go to the grocery store that week. I’m not worried it from the patients who have it. There’s a 100% people who have it right outside the door, that’s not what scares me, what scares me is us hanging out eating lunch. [chuckle] And we’re all very… Everyone there is conscientious, very good. We sit six feet apart whenever we can, we try to go outside, but they don’t want us to go outside if it’s like thunder and lightning, which is now in the monsoon season which is new. We’ve been through this, it’s amazing, we’ve seen snow, we’ve seen sleet, we’ve seen horrible heat waves, and now we’re seeing monsoon season, it’s just very odd. We’ve been there so long.
17:39 ST: Each new challenge.
17:40 ST: Exactly. You get a handle on one thing, my grandfather has this saying, he says, “As soon as I learned all the answers, they changed all the questions.”
17:48 ST: Oh that’s a nice way to say it.
17:49 ST: And I have said that about it a thousand times, since this started. I’m like, “My grandpa knows his stuff.” [chuckle]
17:54 ST: Yeah. Anything else about the testing site before I switch gears?
18:00 ST: So we get lunch delivered every day, which is another miracle, which Emergency Management is buying us lunch every day, but sometimes they’ll bring like, “Oh, we just thought you needed warm rolls and butter. Here you go.” We’re like, “Oh, thanks. It’s so sweet.”
18:13 ST: We just knew you needed carbs. [chuckle]
18:15 ST: Yeah, it’s amazing, once in a while someone will bring coffee or donuts, it’s just like I know those things aren’t healthy, but it’s nice, it’s… Sometimes the people who make our lunches will write notes on every single individual lunch, like, “Keep smiling. We’re grateful. Thank you so much.” And I know it’s silly, but I love opening one of those styrofoam boxes that have a drawing or a note on it, I’m like, “Thanks.” So that’s all, they’re amazing people. I have become very protective of my psyche if I start reading a book and I feel upset, I stop reading the book. I never used to be that way. I used to be like, “I’m gonna finish this book.” Especially if it’s for a a book club, I really wanna finish it. But I did that recently, I forced myself to finish one and I knew within the first half hour of the audio book, I was like, “I don’t like this, it’s hurting me.” Until I finished it and afterwards I was like, “That was the wrong decision. I made the wrong choice.” So then later someone asked me to discuss… To watch and discuss a show about sexual abuse, and I was like, “Nope I can’t. Sorry, I refuse. I can’t.”
19:20 ST: Are you starting to do any of your regular work again? And if so, what does that look like?
19:31 ST: It’s hard because County Health is not open yet to service… Some services couldn’t stop because people really need them, but we can’t go into the public yet. So people who need things, they’re doing as much as they can over Internet and Zoom and stuff, and I don’t know about all the programs, some I’m sure are happening more than mine. I’ve been in contact with my schools that I would usually be setting up our classes with for the fall, but because they’re not opening up for in-person instruction until at least October, I may be able to Zoom teach somehow, but I don’t have that set up yet. And so mostly my work with TPP is finishing up reports and stuff for last year, and then figuring out if and when, what this year looks like.
20:24 ST: And as long as Fort Tuthill is operating and the cases are being handled by my department, I’m still doing that work. But it’s like a month-to-month conversation, sometimes a week-to-week conversation about what we’re gonna do. [chuckle] And I’m able to… There’s funding and there’s the ways for me to do things over Zoom, but I’ve never taught that way. I am doing still, once a week, a Zoom class in juvenile detention, and that’s sometimes fun and sometimes terrible. It’s really hard. Every teacher will tell you you need to read the room and the energy of the students and their reaction to you, and it’s really hard and sometimes impossible to do that over Zoom. And with sexual health, it’s even more important because sometimes you’re triggering things.
21:14 ST: Right.
21:16 ST: So it’s really hard. I’m like… And there is a real element of needing to be in person with that, and I don’t work… I’m just going day-by-day trying to figure out what things will look like.
21:26 ST: How are the juvenile detention… How are they doing? I know the issue of people in detention, in general, has been terrible.
21:38 ST: They are and always have been amazing at keeping their numbers really low. And I can’t speak for them, but my observation is that they’re really good at figuring out really the system, at least in Flagstaff, at least in my experience, is really good at looking at every option for the kid and has always been good like that. And now they do a really good job of… Their numbers are very low, and they do a really good job of quarantining and having sections and having masks and having low staff, and they’re not letting… There’s a lot of programs that come in and teach like mine, not just mine, and everyone’s on Zoom right now.
22:16 ST: You mentioned being careful about your media and what you’re reading, what you’re watching, but is there anything else in terms of just how you’ve learned to take care of yourself or take breaks to be able to deal with the inherent stress of all of this?
22:33 ST: In the beginning… So, you know, all the gyms closed. [chuckle] I was rock climbing like three times a week at the gym when this started, and then that shut down, so then we started going on these really long intense walks. And then I broke my toe. And for like a solid, I wanna say four weeks, I was really… I had like an e-scooter. I couldn’t walk, I had a boot, and there was just a lot… ‘Cause of the way it was broken, it was very broken. [chuckle] People hear a broken toe, and they’re like, “Oh, not a big deal,” and usually that’s true, but this was not like that. So that was a very low point emotionally, because to handle the stress of being at Fort Tuthill and dealing with COVID all of the time… My walks were keeping me sane, and then I started figuring out other things. Like, found these chair cardio workouts online for people with ankle and foot injuries and stuff.
23:32 ST: I really think, as much as I spent most of my life avoiding exercising, I think it’s one of the most important things for my mental health, and that’s so… I feel like it sounds so luxury ’cause I don’t want anyone listening to this to be like, “Oh man, another person telling me I should exercise.” Believe me when I understand you don’t wanna exercise, okay? [chuckle] And now I’m way more healed, and I’m bike riding a lot, and then I’ll get back to walking very soon. It really helped me in the beginning to like, I’d be bent over a computer all day at Fort Tuthill, and then just walk for any amount of time and length. It started to be about like, “I wanna get to the river… I wanna see what the river is doing today,” the Rio, just started being like, “I’m not going fast enough. I’m not moving hard enough. I’m not sore today. That means I didn’t walk good enough yesterday.”
24:15 ST: I didn’t sleep. [chuckle]
24:15 ST: Yeah, exactly. It started to be more like, “I wanna see if that flower by the ditch pool is blooming. [chuckle] I wanna see if there’s water in the Rio. I wanna go where the kids made a ramp jump in the middle of the woods and see if there’s new ramps today.” Those types of things started to be more important just ’cause I had to reframe it somehow and I had to make up ways to reframe it. So that’s what I started doing.
24:39 ST: Nice.
24:41 ST: There was a person doing their own landscaping, I wanted to see if they put in new plants. [chuckle] Just random stuff to motivate me to do this walk, because getting up from the computer, it was so important.
24:53 ST: I feel like I’m… We’re far enough in this now that I’m trying to remember all those lessons I learned at the beginning. [chuckle]
25:00 ST: Yes, yes. That’s early COVID, interesting.
25:03 ST: Right, right. Yeah, I was like…
25:04 ST: Oh, yeah, remember that?
25:05 ST: Oh, right, I was baking, and I liked it.
25:07 ST: Right, you remember baking? [chuckle]
25:08 ST: I should get back to that.
25:10 ST: Remember… I don’t know if you went through… I went through an online shopping phase.
25:12 ST: Oh, I did not. I went through puzzles, I went through baking.
25:15 ST: Yes, I went through puzzles too. I went through puzzles too. Definitely, I own way more puzzles than I ever owned in my life right now. And I’ve only done one ’cause I was in a puzzle phase, but I went through an online shopping phase where I would…
25:26 ST: I could have fallen into that easily though. I’m really trying… I went through more of the purging stuff, organizing and purging phase. Yes. Home remodel phase. [chuckle]
25:37 ST: I did a little cleaning things, I did that, but it was very early, it was very early. Actually, because my quarantine started the week before the 13th, I was very sick. I had a very bad cold. Everyone was talking about this. Did I have COVID very early? Like, la, la, la. It was a nasty respiratory thing, but that wasn’t weird for me. I got those every couple of years, or, sorry, a couple of times every year. I worked in schools. I would get sick.
26:05 ST: It was still winter, basically.
26:06 ST: And then as soon as it ended… What did you say?
26:09 ST: It was still winter, basically.
26:10 ST: It was still winter, a springy winter.
26:12 ST: It was early March. Allergy season.
26:13 ST: I remember, I called my friend at the county and I said, “I have a respiratory disease. Should I be getting tested?” And back then, they were like, “No, unless you traveled to China and unless you la, la, la.” I was like, “Oh, okay.” And then the next week, it was like, “The testing site is open.” [chuckle] And I still had a cough the first week of testing. A lot of us did. It was, like you said, it was still winter. I’m like… So, yeah, early times, it’s funny to remember.
26:39 ST: Is there anything I didn’t bring up that you had wanted to share?
26:43 ST: If I had some message for everyone or something, I guess I would say a lot of people in the beginning had a lot of kind thoughts and gifts for the first responders and a lot of people were giving gifts, and I think that’s kind of gotten a little bit forgotten. And I’m not trying to say, buy things for the nurses, but really, if you ever thought about doing that and you didn’t, or you did, and you still think that would be nice. It’s actually harder and worse now because we’re all sick of hearing about it, I think people are forgetting.
27:12 ST: Right.
27:13 ST: So I just wanna remind everyone that people on the front lines are still having a very long and hard time. And if you’re thinking of them or you have any ideas for something nice, you could do it.
27:27 ST: So as you’re going back to your early COVID coping mechanisms like puzzles…
27:32 ST: Yes.
27:33 ST: Maybe also go back to your early COVID giving mechanisms.
27:37 ST: Yes, yes. I got gifts from people I barely know. There was this woman whose name was Amanda who sent me a gift card to Rainbows, and then she said, “This is for when you can shop again, I just want you to have something to look forward to.” I’m like, “I don’t barely know you, you sweet, amazing person.”
27:54 ST: Nice.
27:54 ST: I’m like… The owner of Rainbows then wrote a really pretty note on a heart-shaped card, like a construction paper, and with the gift card. That was like one of the sweetest things I’ve ever had. I’m like, “I do not deserve this. You guys are so sweet.”
28:07 ST: Did it line up well with your online shopping phase?
28:10 ST: Yeah. Oh, man.
28:13 ST: Oh, that was a great conversation. Thank you again, Sydney, for coming in or coming to my backyard and talking to me for this episode. Thank you for listening to Do Good, Be Good. For show notes on all of the episodes, visit dogoodbegoodshow.com. I will have a new episode coming soon with Louise Fernandez. Louise was also a previous guest on the show. He is also a professor of criminal justice, and he has researched the Black Lives Matter movement and written about the Defund the Police movement. So I have a very interesting conversation with him coming your way. To subscribe to this podcast for free, so you get each episode as soon as it is released, just search for Do Good, Be Good in your podcast app of choice, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Music, Apple Podcasts, whatever you use. This podcast was produced, recorded and edited by me, Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom. Music in this episode is Bathed In Fine Dust by Andy G. Cohen, released under a Creative Commons Attribution International License and discovered in the Free Music Archive. Until next time, this is Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom signing off. [music]